I've contemplated many ways to answer your comments, and, as before, there is much I could address. But without a solid foundation to stand on and a common definition of truth, it makes little sense to make separate comments on each point.
If, as you say, the Bible is fallible because it was written by fallible men, then we must take…
I've contemplated many ways to answer your comments, and, as before, there is much I could address. But without a solid foundation to stand on and a common definition of truth, it makes little sense to make separate comments on each point.
If, as you say, the Bible is fallible because it was written by fallible men, then we must take the same view of every other religious text—indeed, of every work of man. How then can we know which parts of these texts, if any, are true and which are corrupt due to man's fallibility? How can we even be sure that God exists? And if we could be sure of His existenece, how can we discern which text tells us what's true about Him?
Consider the multitude of claims and descriptions of the divine across religious texts and traditions:
- Judaism says Jesus existed but wasn't the Messiah
- Islam says God has no son and Jesus was a prophet
- Hinduism says there is one God with many manifestations
- Buddhism teaches there is no God
- Jehovah's Witnesses say Jesus wasn't God's Son and didn't physically rise from the dead
- Mormons believe that Jesus was a spirit child who atoned for sin through suffering, not death, and became a god
And Christianity says that mankind—all mankind, which truly levels the playing field—is inherently sinful and in need of salvation but can't bring about that salvation for themselves. It teaches that Jesus was the only Son of God, fully God and fully man, sinless in every way, the only One able to provide an atoning sacrifice that could redeem humanity. He suffered and died on a Roman cross, was buried, and rose to life by the power of the Holy Spirit three days later as a sign that God accepted His sacrifice. After 40 days, He ascended to heaven, where He is seated at the right hand of God.
Much more could be said, but its clear that these disparate views of God and Jesus can't be brought into harmony to create one unified truth. If none of them is a fully objective description of reality, we're left with an approach to religion—and, indeed, to life itself— that can't be anything other than subjective: each of us, as fallible humans, sifting through information provided by other fallible humans, trying to construct something we can call "truth." It brings us to the place we find today's society, awash in postmodern thinking, where truth is personal and relative.
This complicates the matter of morality, as it gives us no objective basis from which to discern right or wrong. How can we say that anyone is good or caring except by comparison to our personal, fallible standards? What's "right" or "good" for one person may be abhorrant to another based on any number of factors. Or it may change along with emotions and circumstances, so something that seemed right one day becomes inconvenient the next.
But in an honest search for truth, don't we owe it to ourselves to consider a text that claims to be the very Word of God, breathed out by Him (2 Timothy 3:16), written down by men under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:21), containing eyewitness accounts (Luke 1:1-2) of a man Who was not just a man but the very Son of God (Matthew 3:16-17) come to open the way for us to have eternal fellowship and abundant life with and from the God Who created us (John 3:16-17, 10:10)?
And when we consider it, we find that any goodness or caring in us, regardless of the standard by which it's judged, doesn't elevte our standing with a holy God. The issue is not whether we are good but whether we are righteous. And our problem is that we're not. We are sinful creatures who long ago, in Adam, chose to turn away from the God Who made us for His glory, thus bringing ouselves under His wrath—not a vengeful anger as we understand human wrath, but the righteous response of a holy Being Who deserves our obedience, praise, and glory because He made us and sustains us.
Is He also loving? Of course. God's love is shown in Jesus (Rom. 5:8). Because God is holy and just as well as loving, He has to punish sin. But rather than executing due punishment on each sinful human, He paid the price at great cost to Himself by giving His Son to pay the penalty that mankind deserves for sin and purchase a righteousness that can be imputed to us, given freely without us even needing to be good, because goodness isn't what delivers us from our sinful state and into a right relationship with God.
It's freeing to not have to work for that deliverance. And Christianity is the only religion that says God so *loved* the world that He made it possible for us to have that personal relationship and righteous standing with Him when we couldn't do it ourselves. You can't reach up to God; but He has reached down to us. That's the loving message of Christianity.
A true Christian loves others by sharing that message—the Gospel, the Good News. Anyone who does this with a pious or self-righteous attitude doesn't understand the nature of what God has done in Christ, that we are all, to quote Alistair Begg, beggars telling other beggars where to find food. The free and costly gift of salvation, of Christ's imputed righteousness, is a sign of God's infinite love and mercy toward undeserving people whom He loves with an everlasting love, and telling others of that salvation is the most caring, compassionate thing we can do.
The invitation to accept that payment is open to all. The Gospel offers not restriction or oppression but freedom to be who and and what God has made us to be. To stop searching for a truth among a collection of fragments and find a single, unifying, objective truth that breaks the chains of the sin that enslaves us and delivers us into the glorious liberty of being a child of God (Romans 8:21).
Thank you, John, for prompting me to think more on these things. I've found our conversations stimulating and challenging, and it's my prayer that you think on this truth, as well, and come into that glorious liberty for yourself. :)
John,
I've contemplated many ways to answer your comments, and, as before, there is much I could address. But without a solid foundation to stand on and a common definition of truth, it makes little sense to make separate comments on each point.
If, as you say, the Bible is fallible because it was written by fallible men, then we must take the same view of every other religious text—indeed, of every work of man. How then can we know which parts of these texts, if any, are true and which are corrupt due to man's fallibility? How can we even be sure that God exists? And if we could be sure of His existenece, how can we discern which text tells us what's true about Him?
Consider the multitude of claims and descriptions of the divine across religious texts and traditions:
- Judaism says Jesus existed but wasn't the Messiah
- Islam says God has no son and Jesus was a prophet
- Hinduism says there is one God with many manifestations
- Buddhism teaches there is no God
- Jehovah's Witnesses say Jesus wasn't God's Son and didn't physically rise from the dead
- Mormons believe that Jesus was a spirit child who atoned for sin through suffering, not death, and became a god
And Christianity says that mankind—all mankind, which truly levels the playing field—is inherently sinful and in need of salvation but can't bring about that salvation for themselves. It teaches that Jesus was the only Son of God, fully God and fully man, sinless in every way, the only One able to provide an atoning sacrifice that could redeem humanity. He suffered and died on a Roman cross, was buried, and rose to life by the power of the Holy Spirit three days later as a sign that God accepted His sacrifice. After 40 days, He ascended to heaven, where He is seated at the right hand of God.
Much more could be said, but its clear that these disparate views of God and Jesus can't be brought into harmony to create one unified truth. If none of them is a fully objective description of reality, we're left with an approach to religion—and, indeed, to life itself— that can't be anything other than subjective: each of us, as fallible humans, sifting through information provided by other fallible humans, trying to construct something we can call "truth." It brings us to the place we find today's society, awash in postmodern thinking, where truth is personal and relative.
This complicates the matter of morality, as it gives us no objective basis from which to discern right or wrong. How can we say that anyone is good or caring except by comparison to our personal, fallible standards? What's "right" or "good" for one person may be abhorrant to another based on any number of factors. Or it may change along with emotions and circumstances, so something that seemed right one day becomes inconvenient the next.
But in an honest search for truth, don't we owe it to ourselves to consider a text that claims to be the very Word of God, breathed out by Him (2 Timothy 3:16), written down by men under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:21), containing eyewitness accounts (Luke 1:1-2) of a man Who was not just a man but the very Son of God (Matthew 3:16-17) come to open the way for us to have eternal fellowship and abundant life with and from the God Who created us (John 3:16-17, 10:10)?
And when we consider it, we find that any goodness or caring in us, regardless of the standard by which it's judged, doesn't elevte our standing with a holy God. The issue is not whether we are good but whether we are righteous. And our problem is that we're not. We are sinful creatures who long ago, in Adam, chose to turn away from the God Who made us for His glory, thus bringing ouselves under His wrath—not a vengeful anger as we understand human wrath, but the righteous response of a holy Being Who deserves our obedience, praise, and glory because He made us and sustains us.
Is He also loving? Of course. God's love is shown in Jesus (Rom. 5:8). Because God is holy and just as well as loving, He has to punish sin. But rather than executing due punishment on each sinful human, He paid the price at great cost to Himself by giving His Son to pay the penalty that mankind deserves for sin and purchase a righteousness that can be imputed to us, given freely without us even needing to be good, because goodness isn't what delivers us from our sinful state and into a right relationship with God.
It's freeing to not have to work for that deliverance. And Christianity is the only religion that says God so *loved* the world that He made it possible for us to have that personal relationship and righteous standing with Him when we couldn't do it ourselves. You can't reach up to God; but He has reached down to us. That's the loving message of Christianity.
A true Christian loves others by sharing that message—the Gospel, the Good News. Anyone who does this with a pious or self-righteous attitude doesn't understand the nature of what God has done in Christ, that we are all, to quote Alistair Begg, beggars telling other beggars where to find food. The free and costly gift of salvation, of Christ's imputed righteousness, is a sign of God's infinite love and mercy toward undeserving people whom He loves with an everlasting love, and telling others of that salvation is the most caring, compassionate thing we can do.
The invitation to accept that payment is open to all. The Gospel offers not restriction or oppression but freedom to be who and and what God has made us to be. To stop searching for a truth among a collection of fragments and find a single, unifying, objective truth that breaks the chains of the sin that enslaves us and delivers us into the glorious liberty of being a child of God (Romans 8:21).
Thank you, John, for prompting me to think more on these things. I've found our conversations stimulating and challenging, and it's my prayer that you think on this truth, as well, and come into that glorious liberty for yourself. :)